atom feed20 messages in org.xwiki.devsRe: [xwiki-devs] Proposal: moving the...
FromSent OnAttachments
Guillaume LerougeSep 25, 2014 2:04 am 
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)Sep 25, 2014 2:39 am 
Eduard MoraruSep 25, 2014 3:03 am 
Guillaume LerougeSep 25, 2014 3:31 am 
Guillaume "Louis-Marie" DelhumeauSep 25, 2014 3:41 am 
Eduard MoraruSep 25, 2014 4:16 am 
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)Sep 29, 2014 4:28 am 
Guillaume LerougeSep 29, 2014 6:01 am 
Guillaume LerougeSep 29, 2014 6:06 am 
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)Sep 29, 2014 6:12 am 
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)Sep 29, 2014 6:14 am 
Guillaume LerougeSep 29, 2014 6:35 am 
Jeremie BOUSQUETSep 29, 2014 6:50 am 
Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)Sep 29, 2014 7:13 am 
Jeremie BOUSQUETSep 29, 2014 7:49 am 
Eduard MoraruSep 29, 2014 3:07 pm 
Eduard MoraruSep 29, 2014 3:11 pm 
Guillaume LerougeSep 30, 2014 2:56 am 
Eduard MoraruSep 30, 2014 4:20 am 
Denis GervalleSep 30, 2014 5:03 am 
Subject:Re: [xwiki-devs] Proposal: moving the "create wiki" and "create space" actions
From:Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) (vali@gmail.com)
Date:Sep 29, 2014 4:28:25 am
List:org.xwiki.devs

Hi,

So I think is a good idea to provide the ability to create wikis/spaces/page on their Indexes pages. In the case of Wiki Manager this was removed in http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9490 but if we re-add it we could standardize the creation of entities in their context (just like we do it on ColorThemes WebHome or on on Blog.WebHome).

But even if we make this improvement, I still would want to have the ability to create wikis/spaces/pages in the Add menu.

IMO is not one way or the other (and I don't agree with the duplication argument). One way of creating entries (the Add menu way) is more generic, while the other way (contextual form placement on the Homepages/Indexes) is specific to the entity type.

Thanks, Caty

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Eduard Moraru <enyg@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <guil@xwiki.com> wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Eduard Moraru <enyg@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Guillaume,

I have started a new discussion [1] on the topic of the new location of the Add menu in Flamingo which is, IMO, the real problem here.

I'll answer on this thread.

However, I stand by my point that creating a wiki or a space are different actions compared from adding a new page and as thus should be treated differently.

Regarding your actual proposal, I`d be inclined to -1 it, as IMO it makes

basic CRUD operations on the wiki model harder to perform (i.e. harder to find), and what we`d like to do is help people create content and structure, not the other way around.

I agree with the logic but I'm not sure I'm 100% in line with the conclusion. As you said, the goal is to help users create and structure their content.

Right now, when looking at existing installs, I often see cases where users created several spaces with similar names (which doesn't really help structure information). This is mainly because they didn't know that a space with a similar name already existed. Similarly, you wouldn't want someone to create a "Communication" wiki if the "MarketingCommunication" wiki already exists.

What I read from your example above is that we can improve the create page/space/wiki UIs to have a section that does a kind of suggest to the user based on the name of the new entry he wants to create. We could have something like "The pages/spaces/wikis/etc. above already exist. Are you sure you want to create a new <userEnteredEntityName> page/space/wiki/etc. instead of using one of the above?"

We could go as far as to force the user to check a checkbox before the "Create" button becomes enabled/clickable. This could either be a configuration option, based on the desire/intent/wishes of the admin of that wiki/space.

With a bit of effort, this could be done consistently for the entire "/create/" action and its plugged-in template providers.

This is why I'm proposing to place "Create" buttons in context. I see at least 3 places where this could be useful:

- "Create wiki" button on http://<server>/xwiki/bin/view/WikiManager/ - "Create space" button on hypothetical http://<server>/xwiki/bin/view/Main/SpacesIndex (similar to what we already have on the Dashboard) - "Create user" button on http://<server> /xwiki/bin/view/Main/UserDirectory

So from my point of view, by putting those buttons on those pages they would actually be easier to find and understand for end-users.

This will not solve anything if the user is already too lazy to search for existing entries before creating one. The one he wishes to create might be on the second page of the livetable and the lazy user will just go ahead and create the similar entry.

For this to be relatively effective in reducing duplication, we would have to implement something on the lines of what I have described above with the "reuse sugestion".

I`m not particularly against this approach (of adding create options in the list), since we were already doing this at some point and in some places, but I`m still -1 for scattering the create logic in various locations instead of using the centralized "Add" menu. If we don`t, we will have 99999 pages all inside the Main space and that's it. How`s that for a wiki gardening nightmare? :)

Thanks, Eduard

Thanks,

Guillaume

Thanks,

Eduard

---------- [1] http://xwiki.markmail.org/thread/jqbcj4p4ryc56sms

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < vali@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

We improved the things a bit by implementing http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10928 Now users can more rapidly create pages by using the implicit value of 'Add'.

Having all the option (Create Wiki, Create Space, Create Page) in the menu is important IMO since you can create spaces (and wikis) from

anywhere

in

the wiki. You don't need to be in a certain location to do this action.

I agree about having a Space Index of some sort and have a consistent way of localizing/navigating Wikis/Spaces/Pages. Something similar to

this

idea

was the Explorer proposal http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/ExplorerApp

Another related issue to this subject is http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9440, but again I think XWIKI-10928 <http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10928> improved the problem.

Thanks, Caty

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < guil@xwiki.com

wrote:

Hi Devs,

I'm currently testing XE 6.2, it's a great release, I love the new look a lot - well done guys!

I have a quick remark that is related to the new location of the "Create" button. I think we should move the "create wiki" and "create space" options from where they are located now.

The "Create wiki" button could be moved under the list of wikis on this page: http://<server>/xwiki/bin/view/WikiManager/

We would probably need a similar "space index" page with the

"Create

space"

button there, a bit like what we have on the dashboard now: http:// <server>/xwiki/bin/view/Dashboard/

The objective being that when doing those create actions, they

would

be

done with the context of the wikis / spaces that already exist.

What is also a bit confusing for users is that since creating a new

wiki

is

much much bigger and less frequent than creating a new page, the action should not be available from every single page.

This issue has become much more salient than before to me because

of

the

new location of the "Create" button. What's your opinion about this?